| Post-separation Telephone Contact | ||
| Father is to telephone the child every Tuesday and Thursday evening, yet he never phones her? I put her on the phone 2-3 times a fortnight. It must hurt her that dad never rings. Can anything be done even though he is breaching the orders? | ||
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Posted 21 June, 2009, 04:36 AM
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Bronze Member
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Our orders state that the father is to telephone the child every Tuesday and Thursday evening, yet he never phones her? I put her on the phone 2-3 times a fortnight. It must hurt her that dad never rings. Yet apparently nothing can be done even though he is breaching the orders?
Veni, vidi, vici
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Posted 21 June, 2009, 12:22 PM
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Platinium Member
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What's the exact wording of the orders in relation to this please? Would you please post that excerpt here for us to read and consider. I suppose it is no different to when the MOTHER never calls our children ! You seem to be bashing Father's lately, quite a feminist stance! |
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Posted 21 June, 2009, 08:12 PM
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Silver Member
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May I suggest not telling the child exactly when it is that her dadis supposed to call her? This might be controversial advice, but if he's slack with calling and you keep telling her when he's meant to, it will only exacerbate the problem. Think about telling herthat he is going tocall her "whenever he can" and that way if/when he does, she'll be pleased - meanwhile you're not adding to her hurt by pointing out to her every time he doesn't, which will no doubt hurt her. If he really is a slacker then he'll have her anger and questions to deal with when she's a bit older. You really don't want to be the one seen to run him down, he'll always be herdad, and to do so will onlyhurt her relationship with you in the end. I know it's frustrating but we have to as parents be bigger than that, no matter how annoying it is. Good luck and I hope he starts to call her more often. C. |
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Posted 21 June, 2009, 11:00 PM
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Percolo Alio
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Yes a very good reply Sunnyside. I would wonder why he is not calling on a regular basis as it is rather unusual. Have you discussed the issues with him Valonas or have a mutual colleague do so if you are unable to. There are many who would wish they had as much contact time.
Was my post helpful? If not, please let us know how we can do better If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity |
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Posted 22 June, 2009, 04:00 PM
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Silver Member
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Valonas if you had bothered to read some of the forums you would have discovered it is not a breach (contravention). Contact is defined as a privilege and not an obligation. Trying to breach someone for not taking advantage of a privilege is nonsensical. |
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Posted 22 June, 2009, 06:56 PM
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Silver Member
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Agreed Conan, however I have seen the pain of children who think their parent doesn't care, even in circumstances where you'd think they know it. My steps for example are supposed to get a callfrom their mother on their birthdays if they're at our house that day, yet she never calls them, instead she does a 'pretend birthday' on their last dayat her placebeforehand or their first day back there afterwards. I imagine (hope!) she's got good intentions and is trying to not disrupt the care arrangements unduly, yet they still get pretty upset, and it's down to me and their dad to make it OK for them. Fortunately we are able to point out how cool it is to have two birthdays, and two cakes  Having said that I can only imagine how difficult it is to manage the feelings of a child who doesn't getANY phone calls and misses their dad, but has to make all the effort to maintain contactthemselves. I mean what do yousay to the child? "I know your dad loves you, he must just be very busy"? This is not an easy thing by any means. |
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Posted 27 June, 2009, 12:47 AM
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Bronze Member
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I just wish there was a way to get through to him that he's hurting his daughter by not calling her. I learned years ago not to give our daughter any details of visit or calls, because there's never been any predictability in it. What about the abusive text messages that have started again? Surely that's a breach of orders that require sensible communication (can't recall the exact words on the orders - I'm sure you all know what they are) I think I'm trying for the impossible - for him to just grow up, get over himself and think of our child instead of focussing on me all the time. Recently I paid return airfares for her to see him for the school holidays and he's whining about conditions which were never discussed, in short, cancelling the visit!! What the hell am I supposed to do after bending over backwards, fighting for her daughter to see her father and he's clearly not interested. Ok, so it's his privilege whether he wants to see her or not but isn't it part of his shared parental responsibility also? At what point can I just pull back and say "No", I need to protect her from continued disappointment and rejection?
Veni, vidi, vici
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Posted 27 June, 2009, 05:07 PM
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Percolo Alio
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Such a shame because there will be a day that comes where daughter will ask the father why he did not call. The reforms to Part VII of the Family Law Act 1975 (Cth), introduced by the Family Law Amendment (Shared Parental Responsibility) Act 2006 were wide-ranging. Among the most significant of those reforms was the introduction of a rebuttable presumption of equal shared parental responsibility and particular obligations placed on family courts to consider equal time and substantial and significant time arrangements where the presumption applies. The provisions around shared parental responsibility relate only to involvement in major long-term issues which are defined to include education, religious and cultural upbringing, health, the childs name and changes to the childs living arrangements that would make it significantly more difficult for the child to spend time with a parent. Clearly these are the key topics. It does not extend to communication with the children. Nor does it say that you must have contact or a relationship with children. Regrettably, where a parent does not want to have contact or any reasonable interactions then its hard to force them to do so. We generally only ever have issues where many good parents are trying to get overnight contact and a mean or spiteful other parent stops or tries at every point to reduce such contact. Fortunately we were largely successful in seeing through changes to the Act in 2006 which have certainly turned the tide in that regard. I think it would be a valuable contribution to your daughter if you were to continue to be supportive and attempt to get that contact happening in time. Perhaps there are some very deep wounds of the separation still to be healed. Perhaps time will take care of some of this. We are not privy to the conditions you imposed so can't comment on the plane visit for her to see him for the school holidays. Clearly there are still some deep seated issues that need resolution between the pair of you as the visit was likely cancelled as a statement to you not your daughter. I would say that lack of contact is deeply regretted by dad actually but a brave face is being put forward. Was my post helpful? If not, please let us know how we can do better If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity |
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Posted 02 July, 2009, 01:51 AM
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Silver Member
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So stop waiting for his call, and make the call yourself. Or get the kid to write dad a short letter in that time frame, instead of having the call, and make sure it gets posted straight away. Maybe dad works too hard or has a new girlfriend or one of a thousand other scenarios. We cannot tell from the scant info. Maybe you are rude to him or unnecessarily whinging when he rings to talk to his kid,. Men hate that. Completely seperate all your motherly issues from his phone contact with the child in the future, and do not speak about any parent issues during his contact time with the child. Save that stuff for a different call on a different day. Perhaps even pick a day once a month to have your parental discussions. I would try this because your efforts so far seem to be failing, so perhaps this alternative may work. No-one can force a parent to have contact. I remember years ago a Justice of the Family Court was surprised when a parent who was the usual primary care giver of the child and had been denied custody, then refused to take any access, and laughing said to the Court you cannot force me to have any access and I will have none. I refuse. The Justice had not cared that one parent, who was not normal and a genuine nut, was bashing the child so that the mother would hand over her money to him. When his assaults on her didn't work he started on the kid. So, when the Family Court gave him the kid permanently, the mother could never visit for fear he would use his control to keep bashing the kid to get the money from the mother who had a large wage. The extortionist child bashing father and the pathetic Fam.Ct. Justice did not seem to have anticipated that the mother would refuse all access, and they could not do anything about it. Luckily. |
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Posted 02 July, 2009, 01:00 PM
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Silver Member
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isy is this a reflection of your past? I highly doubt that the courts would have directed that the child live with the father if he was bashing the child! Would a caring, loving mother walk away from her child if she knew the child was being bashed? |
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Posted 02 July, 2009, 03:30 PM
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Silver Member
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Conan you are not the first person I have come across that does not have much knowledge about the history of the family court. They did not open yesterday, although shared parenting practically did. Actually, that case was also a DOCS case. Does that help you in your wondering how it all could of happened? I wonder what your history is Conan. You seem to stick up for the judges pretty quickly. |
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Posted 02 July, 2009, 11:35 PM
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Bronze Member
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Isy, Isy, Isy read the original post - I've been putting our daughter on the phone 2 to 3 times a fortnight. I don't speak to that dead beat anymore. This is not about me, that's what I've tried to get through to him but gave up a few months back - he is still so fixated on me and uses our daughter as a tool to punish me. Unfortunately he hasn't the brains to realize the one he is hurting is his own flesh and blood. I've done everything I can to encourage and facilitate their relationship, but enough's enough - the ball's in his court now. Isy, it looks like you're looking for any opportunity to air your misgynistic female hating mother bashing stance.
Veni, vidi, vici
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Posted 03 July, 2009, 04:56 AM
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Silver Member
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Plenty of fathers and mothers have admitted to me that they were using child contact time to have arguments, so I had to cover that base. Perhaps dad is better by mail then by phone, or better in person, or at family events, or when he is on holiday from work. Some people shine in some mediums but not others. Have you really exhausted all avenues? You appear to want to exhaust all avenues. Maybe you should give up. Maybe he is a dead beat. Maybe you should stop filling the child with false expectations. Maybe you could try transfering his parental input to a relative of his such as an aunt or uncle or grandparent of the child. Your not the only person in the same boat. I had coffee with a mum not long ago who said she gave up. Dad has hit the heavy drugs and can barely sit up. The kids and her have lowered their expectations, at least for the short term. Maybe you should embrace more strongly sole parenting, for the time being. I dare say many people have had similar experiences on occasion at least. |
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Posted 03 July, 2009, 12:08 PM
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Bronze Member
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It's amazing how many assumptions you've made about me - maybe the father does the same, which causes so many problems in our communication, which has pretty well stopped completely now. What I'm referring to is "filling the child's head with expectations". I've known the guy long enough and well enough to know he's unreliable, but had hoped he might grow up somewhere along the line. I've covered up for him for years by giving her vague answers and focusing on the 'now' also encouraging her to call her dad if she has questions about where he is etc. Embracing sole parenting - yes, I've been finally able to do this by way of an interstate relocation and the maternal grandmother is now a positive role model for our daughter. All these posts have confirmed that I've done the right thing. I've minimized her exposure to continuing rejection and let down.
Veni, vidi, vici
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Posted 04 July, 2009, 10:56 AM
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Platinium Member
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And sometimes that is all you can do, you can't force contact where it isn't wanted. Just keep doing what you are doing and maybe in the future he will want contact and she will be happy for it.
When you are swimming down a creek and an eel bites your cheek, that's a Moray.
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Posted 07 July, 2009, 03:08 PM
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Silver Member
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For what it's worth Valonas I think it sounds like you're doing the best you can possibly do in this situation. Some people just can't prioritise their kids' needs over their hatred of the ex. Hopefully one day your daughter's father will be able to, but if not then there's only so much you can do. |
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Posted 23 August, 2009, 10:15 PM
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General Member
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Velonas. I am a new member, and I have just read your posts re: phone contact. It really does sound like you have the right attitude and a lovely motivation. I can just hear my Counsellor answering your questions and comments, I'll pass on what she tells me. STEP BACK. Don't try to 'fix' anything. Your responsibility as her mother is all you have, and that responsibility entails loving and enriching 'your relationship with her' and 'supporting and encouraging' the relationship of her and her father (and his family if do-able). Don't go over board. As long as she can see you're trying, your job is just to comfort her when she's sad, leave their relationship to be what it is. It's for them (him, or her as an adult) to make it what it will be one day. Writing letters does sound good, even if she just writes in a journal of her thoughts and feelings. She will learn 'dad is unreliable', 'dad acts like he doesn't care', these are common traits of any parents. But let go of thinking 'you can fix it', or that 'you should fix it'. You can't, because it's not yours to fix; just keep doing your job. And in that, it sounds like you've got it covered. Relax. |
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Posted 25 August, 2009, 10:37 AM
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Silver Member
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just a inquiry, how does a father deal with another parent that has deep seated issues & uses a child as a pawn to manipulate the situation to get what she wants? Is this how the other parent was brought up by her parent(s)? Play the victim to get sympathy? Or just hide the fact she isnt grown up enough to see through her own selfsh, in turn may rub off onto my daughter? Very scary! Any thoughts? |
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Posted 25 August, 2009, 12:19 PM
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Platinium Member
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I think the best way of dealing with this is to provide your children with other options, the more variability you bring into the childrens lives the more situational examples they have to choose from. My X has learnt much from her mother because of the way she was brought up and the guilt trips that she had laid on her before her mother died. Funny thing is she was and is more than aware of this influence as well as the difference between wrong and right and guess what even though she changed for a short while she is back in the grove of what she learnt. It takes energy to change habits and many people simply can't keep the consistency up so change back to what they know best. To point she still controls the children from her first marriage in the way her mother showed her, our child she has to work harder to control so is constantly employing different methods in an attempt to be " the most loved parent ". Problems arise when you try to compete and the child suffers dramatically so in my opinion you are better staying consistent and being a good example, this will not do anything to the exposure our children may suffer but it will give them another way of dealing with problems, add this to what many schools are teaching and hopefully it's enough. |
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Posted 25 August, 2009, 08:09 PM
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Bronze Member
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oh, I was going to reply to vipashna's port but it's been removed...so I;'ll reiterate the point for the benefit of pillar2post...just keep the child's best interest foremost and you can't go wrong. Simple. for the record, my daughter's father still never rings her. He's maybe rang twice in the last 3 months. I just keep offering her if she wants to call him and dial the number for her once a week or so. I suppose it's too painful for her to ring more than once a week, knowing the call never gets returned. Also, what;s the legal stand on him moving address and not notifying us of his whereabouts and new phone number? Our orders state that notice has to be given in writing within 7 days if either party moves house...
Veni, vidi, vici
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