View topic ((USA) Cannibal Mum)

Member information

The capacity for both parents to be violent is clear!
(USA) Cannibal Mum
	Posted 29 July, 2009, 08:25 AM #26123
monaro Platinium Member	The father of a three-week-old Texas boy who authorities say was mutilated and cannibalised by his mother says he wants the woman executed, while her family says she was recently diagnosed with schizophrenia and postpartum psychosis. Otty Sanchez, 33, is charged with capital murder in the death of Scott Wesley Buchholtz-Sanchez. When authorities found the infant's body, Sanchez told officers the devil made her do it, police said. Photos: Tragedy of baby Scott "She was a sweet person and I still love her, but she needs to pay the ultimate price for what she has done," the baby's father, Scott W. Buchholtz, told the San Antonio Express-News Monday. "She needs to be put to death for what she has done." Relatives and Buchholtz said Sanchez's mental health deteriorated in the week before her son's death. Buchholtz, who called his son "baby Scotty," said she often talked about how she needed to see a counsellor. Sanchez told detectives she had been hearing voices. Otty Sanchez's aunt, Gloria Sanchez, told The Associated Pressthat her niece had been "in and out" of a psychiatric ward, and that the hospital called several months ago to check up on her. Sanchez was hospitalised Tuesday with self-inflicted stab wounds and was being held on $1 million bail. Police have said she does not have an attorney. Authorities found the baby with three of his toes chewed off, his face torn away and his head was severed. Otty Sanchez's sister and her sister's two children, ages 5 and 7, were in the house at the time, but none were harmed. Sanchez and Buchholtz lived together during the pregnancy and the first two weeks after their son was born, Buchholtz said. The paper reported that Sanchez's recovery from giving birth was complicated by an infection, and she was required to use a catheter for about a week. That setback darkened her mood, and she was soon diagnosed with postpartum depression. She moved out of the couple's shared home July 20. on Saturday, she showed up to see Buchholtz at his parents' house. She became agitated when he told her he needed copies of the baby's papers, Buchholtz said. Sanchez ran out of the home with her son in a car seat, threw the car seat into the front passenger seat of her car and sped away without buckling him in, Buchholtz said. She left behind a diaper bag, her purse and her medication. Buchholtz's mother called police, and a sheriff's deputy investigated the incident as a disturbance, according to court records. The next day, authorities said, she killed her son. Officers called to Sanchez's house at about 5am local time Sunday found her sitting on the couch screaming "I killed my baby! I killed my baby!" San Antonio Police Chief William McManus said. McManus described the crime scene as so grisly that police officers barely spoke to each other while looking through the house. If you or anyone you know may be suffering from depression or are in crisis, contact Beyond Blue on 1300 224 636 or Lifeline on 131 114.


	Posted 29 July, 2009, 12:22 PM #26126
verdad Percolo Alio	It is 'blue-ing' to read such sad news. It ought not be necessary for such instances to remind that violence is a human trait, not gender specific. Whilst the best interests of children are secondary to which gender are the best carers, the discourse is not focused on the important 'little issues' (the children). A polarised debate which has virtual collective female and male egos contesting verbally indeterminable issues is unwarranted. Looking to that which allows a more collective caring of children is a more worthy pursuit. What is done for you, let it be done, what you must do, be sure you do it, as the wise person does today that what the fool will do in three days - Buddha


	Posted 29 July, 2009, 09:24 PM #26146
Jadzia Platinium Member	It's a bit more difficult where post natal depression is involved. Anyone who has suffered that illness on any level will know how much it changes a woman while they are suffering it. When you are swimming down a creek and an eel bites your cheek, that's a Moray.


	Posted 29 July, 2009, 11:09 PM #26152
monaro Platinium Member	Jadzia said It's a bit more difficult where post natal depression is involved. Anyone who has suffered that illness on any level will know how much it changes a woman while they are suffering it. The term "Depression" is not gender specific, it affects both Man and Woman - it is an illness The degree to which it affects varies with each individual, you cannot say that a Woman can suffer greater than a Man nor a Man suffer greater than a Woman.


	Posted 30 July, 2009, 11:52 AM #26163
Jadzia Platinium Member	True however postnatal depression by its nature is rather gender specific until men can give birth.... When you are swimming down a creek and an eel bites your cheek, that's a Moray.


	Posted 30 July, 2009, 12:28 PM #26165
MikeT Percolo Alio	Actually Jadzia, there is male postnatal depression. e.g. : Wisegeek Post natal depression in women is a widely recognized condition, but a lesser-known condition is male post natal depression. The main reason that this condition is lesser known is that men often find it difficult to talk about. Some men do not realize that they are suffering from the condition. Post natal depression has been linked to an increase in depression in a large number of men. Male post natal depression sometimes occurs as a reaction when a man's female partner is suffering from post natal depression. Many men have claimed that coping with their partners depression leaves them feeling overwhelmed, isolated, and stigmatized. According to health workers, male post natal depression has led to the breakup of many marriages. A vast majority of breakups occur after the birth of a child. Many couples are not aware that post natal depression is the cause of the breakup. A great many women hide their post natal depression to the extent that their partners are not aware of the reason behind their mood swings. The female's depression can be transferred to the male, sometimes causing suicidal tendencies in the male. Another reason for male post natal depression is that many men find it difficult to cope with the birth of a child. The new addition to the family can be stressful, especially if the male has to work during the day and cope with the child at night. This type of male post natal depression is independent from female depression. While female post natal depression is thought to be hormonal, the male condition is considered more physical. One of the biggest problems for men when it comes to male post natal depression is a lack of support. There are numerous support groups and much help available for women, but there is practically nowhere for depressed fathers to turn. In addition, men have historically been reluctant to talk about this type of depression, and statistics regarding male post natal depression have only recently highlighted the problem. Symptoms of male post natal depression can include feelings of isolation and mood swings. There may also be work related problems, and substance abuse may develop as a symptom. Other symptoms of male post natal depression may manifest themselves as lethargy, anxiety attacks, loss of sex drive, difficulty in concentration, headaches, and stomach pains. If these symptoms appear, it is important that they are taken seriously, and a doctor should be consulted. More and more support groups are starting to appear as the problems of male post natal depression are becoming recognized. The above was found at WiseGeek on Male Post Natal Depression, google brings up 117,000 hits for "male postnatal depression". Disclaimer - I apologise for any adverse reaction/feeling you may have if you are not of sound mind and therefore take this disclaimer and everything I post ridiculously out of context and see the hidden gender-biased messages that my lack of self-awareness allows me to actually be aware of and compose without actually even composing them. Thanking Larissap for the inspiration behind this signature. When asked about hand written notes on the document marked as Exhibit 3 the best that the Applicant maternal grandmother could say was : It looks like my handwriting!


	Posted 30 July, 2009, 12:46 PM #26169
Jadzia Platinium Member	Yes there is Mike, but male post natal depression is more akin to general depression, in women the illness can take a vastly different format including hallucinations, and not just suicidal thoughts but ones where you actually want to harm your child. With depression your world becomes a living hell, with postnatal it's like living on a scifi/horror planet where all reality is distorted. Hard to explain the difference but it is there. When you are swimming down a creek and an eel bites your cheek, that's a Moray.


Couvade
	Posted 30 July, 2009, 03:42 PM #26182
MikeT Percolo Alio	Jadzia, I believe that you have basically described the disorder/illness Psychotic Depression. EveryDay Health said "Psychotic depression is a relatively rare condition that occurs when someone displays both severe depression and a break with reality. The loss of contact with reality may take the form of delusions, hallucinations, or thought disorders," explains James C. Overholser, PhD, professor of psychology and director of clinical training at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland. Approximately 25 percent of people who have depression that is severe enough to cause them to be admitted to a hospital also have psychosis or psychotic depression. "Major depression with psychosis" is another term used to describe the condition of psychotic depression. or when it comes to postnatal depression it may be classed as postnatal psychosis or postpartum psychosis and believe it or not, yes males do suffer as the following description of a case from NBCI (National Centre for Biotechnology Information) indicates:- NBCI PubMed said The occurrence of postpartum psychosis in a male patient after the birth of a child is described in this case report. An association with the phenomenon of the couvade syndrome that is observed in all cultures is made. Also, the stressful life event of pregnancy in a partner related to the onset and development of psychotic disturbance is reported. Emotional disorders which develop in women during pregnancy are compared and contrasted with the variable responses which men manifest. Signs and symptoms heralding the onset of a more pathological pregnancy response in men are offered. The authors suggest that the experience of couvade be defined as a spectrum disorder of pathological responses in males ranging from physical symptoms to psychosis as a reaction to pregnancy. This case represents the extreme end of that spectrum and suggestions are made for early identification and treatment. Whilst looking at the above I followed another link and found this, which is quite interesting, if perhaps a little off-topic: NBCI PubMed said It is evident that couvade syndrome exists in the industrialized culture. However, there are questions about the occurrence of couvade given the large range of reported incidence. Clinton found no difference in the occurrence of symptoms between expectant fathers and nonexpectant men throughout the three trimesters of pregnancy. Differences were noted, however, in the types and perceived seriousness of symptoms between these men, with expectant fathers reporting more colds, unintentional weight gain, insomnia, and restlessness. Significant differences in health deviation were reported by the new fathers during the immediate postpartum period. These new fathers experienced fatigue, emotional and cognitive disturbances, and headaches. Strickland's work did not provide comparative estimates of the incidence of couvade syndrome. The focus of this study was to explore the nature of pregnancy-related symptoms among expectant fathers. These expectant fathers reported key symptoms during the second trimester of pregnancy with increasing occurrence during the last trimester of pregnancy. Expectant fathers most likely to experience couvade were anxious, black, working class men experiencing an unplanned pregnancy. Anxiety, suppression of hostility, and identification with the pregnant partner were explored as predictors of the occurrence of couvade syndrome. Anxiety is likely to occur in expectant fathers because of financial concerns and changes in relationships and roles. Feelings of protectiveness toward the partner and fetus/infant also can be anxiety producing for the expectant father. The developmental tasks described by Duvall and Penticuff were predicated on the transitional nature of becoming a parent. Each task depicts the inherent change in both structure and function of the male's family role which is influenced by society and the family unit. May proposed that expectant fathers have unique styles that predict the degree of involvement with the partner and the pregnancy. Phases of father involvement, described by May, and the father's laboring for relevance, described by Jordan, are conceptually consistent with the developmental tasks identified by Duvall. Each phase or subprocess is sequential, marked by intrapersonal and interpersonal characteristics. Movement through these tasks, phases, or subprocesses is dependent upon accepting the reality of the pregnancy, cultural norms, and society's expectations of fathers. Herzog identified degrees of involvement among fathers whose partners delivered prematurely. In this retrospective inquiry, fathers with a high degree of involvement were more likely to experience symptoms of couvade syndrome than were fathers who were less involved. All fathers in the study, regardless of the involvement, reported being fearful of the unknown outcome and experiencing grief over the preterm delivery.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 400 WORDS) One might wonder what this "couvade syndrome" is, so: Wikpedia said Couvade syndrome is a medical/mental condition which "involves a father experiencing some of the behavior of his wife at near the time of childbirth, including her birth pains, postpartum seclusion, food restrictions, and sex taboos" (Counihan, p.69). The term "couvade" is derived from the early French word (Couver "to brood") and originally referred to the medieval Basque custom in which the father, during or immediately after the birth of a child, took to bed, complained of having labour pains, and was accorded the treatment usually shown women during pregnancy or after childbirth. The medical term for this condition is sympathetic pregnancy. and for the more curious a little more: Wikpedia said Symptoms Couvade is a common but poorly understood phenomenon whereby the expectant father experiences apparently physical symptoms during the pregnancy for which there is no recognized physiological basis. Symptoms commonly include indigestion, increased or decreased appetite, weight gain, diarrhea or constipation, headache, and toothache. Couvade has been seen as an expression of somatized anxiety, pseudo-sibling rivalry, identification with the fetus, ambivalence about fatherhood, a statement of paternity, or parturition envy. It is likely that the dynamics of couvade may vary between individuals and may be multidetermined (Klein, 1991). In some extreme cases, fathers can grow a belly similar to a 7-month pregnant woman and gain approximately 25 to 30 pounds ("phantom pregnancy"). Other symptoms include and are not limited to developed cravings, suffered nausea, breast augmentation, and insomnia. In "Psycho-Evolutionary" theory, it is thought that couvade is a way to minimize sexual differences in the pregnancy and birthing experience. The couvade may also be a way to establish the father's role in the child's life and to give balance to the gender roles. Couvade is more common where sex roles are flexible and the female is of a dominant status [1]. Causes Studies have shown that the male partner cohabitating with a pregnant female will experience hormonal shifts in his prolactin, cortisol, estradiol and testosterone levels;[2] typically starting at the end of the first trimester and continuing through several weeks post-partum. [2] Suggested explanations of how and why this occurs include an interaction of factors (some of which are little-researched) such as pheromones, circadian rhythms, simple stress, and mitogenetics. It has been suggested that spouse sleep disturbances may affect the neurohormonal. One possible mechanism is the increased basal estrogen levels from peripheral conversion of testosterone by adipose tissue. To date no biologic target has been identified as a cause of this pain syndrome.[citation needed] Couvade has been reported by travelers throughout history, including the Greek geographer Strabo and the Venetian traveler Marco Polo. It has been observed and studied by anthropologists in modern times and is often seen in tribal societies. In some indigenous societies, "sympathetic pregnancy" is attributed to demons or spirits inflicting the symptoms in an attempt to cause problems for the family. Currently, scientists are at a loss to whether or not Couvade syndrome should be considered psychosomatic, as the syndrome is brought on by a psychological effect (i.e.) the pregnancy of the wife, but was formerly considered a form of Munchausen syndrome.[citation needed] Formerly a number of elaborate psychological explanations were given for it, but today the general medical thought is shifting to a more physical explanation based on hormones. The peripheral conversion of testosterone to estrogen in adipose cells can cause a surge of estrogen. The hormonal link to pain rests in estrogen's proinflammatory effects and in particular its affect on IL-2 and TNF-alpha release. This theory, has been debunked largely by failed treatment with anti-estrogen pharmacotherapies. Successful models of care are based on managing this condition as psychosomatic in origin. Individuals who continue to have pain in the postpartum period can be managed successfully with biofeedback. Anxiolytics or antipsychotics are a last resort but have showed promise for refractory pain. The strong association with other Axis II or Axis III disorders suggests that other emotional or psychological disturbances may hinder prompt treatment. Author Gordon Churchwell has written extensively on the hormonal explanation for the phenomena. References 1. ^ Abensour, Lon. "Histoire gnrale du fminisme". http://books.google.co...Idw8NKD3zD4C&pg=PA11. 2. ^ a b A.E. Storey; C.J. Walsh, R.L. Quinton, K.E. Wynne-Edwards (2000). "Hormonal Correlates of Paternal Responsiveness in new and expectant fathers". Evolution and Human Behavior 21: 7995. doi:10.1016/S1090-5138(99)00042-2. * Klein, H. Couvade syndrome: male counterpart to pregnancy. Int J Psychiatry Med, 21: 1, 1991, 57-69. * Counihan, Carole. The Anthropology of Food and Body: Gender, Meaning, and Power. New York: Routledge, 1999. Disclaimer - I apologise for any adverse reaction/feeling you may have if you are not of sound mind and therefore take this disclaimer and everything I post ridiculously out of context and see the hidden gender-biased messages that my lack of self-awareness allows me to actually be aware of and compose without actually even composing them. Thanking Larissap for the inspiration behind this signature. When asked about hand written notes on the document marked as Exhibit 3 the best that the Applicant maternal grandmother could say was : It looks like my handwriting!


	Posted 01 August, 2009, 06:35 PM #26258
fjb61 Silver Member	I think post natal depression is related to cortisol levels being disrupted by pregnancy, that it is peculiar to women who have given birth and so is physiologically related to that event.


	Posted 01 August, 2009, 07:16 PM #26262
MikeT Percolo Alio	fjb61 said I think post natal depression is related to cortisol levels being disrupted by pregnancy, that it is peculiar to women who have given birth and so is physiologically related to that event. If that is so, then how do you account for the post natal depression suffered by fathers? Why do you think that PND is related to cortisol levels, just your own thought(s) or do are you aware of any research that supports the view you hold? I've had a little look around and it would appear that both high and low levels of cortisol have been found and that there is no apparent strong correlation. OBGYN.NET said Cortisol levels rise in pregnancy, peak in labor, then fall dramatically following delivery, after which they decline more slowly to normal levels.21 A strong correlation between cortisol levels and the incidence of depression is not apparent; both high and low levels of cortisol have been documented during the postpartum period in women suffering from postpartum depression.7,14 7 O'Hara MW. Postpartum Depression. In: Alloy LB, ed. Series in Psychopathology. New York: Springer-Verlag; 1995:1-27. 14 # Stowe ZN, Nemeroff CB. Women at risk for postpartum-onset major depression. Am J Obstet Gynecol. 1995;173(2):639-645. The link to the above is here OBGYN.Net - Postpartum depression Disclaimer - I apologise for any adverse reaction/feeling you may have if you are not of sound mind and therefore take this disclaimer and everything I post ridiculously out of context and see the hidden gender-biased messages that my lack of self-awareness allows me to actually be aware of and compose without actually even composing them. Thanking Larissap for the inspiration behind this signature. When asked about hand written notes on the document marked as Exhibit 3 the best that the Applicant maternal grandmother could say was : It looks like my handwriting!


	Posted 01 August, 2009, 07:26 PM #26265
fjb61 Silver Member	Well Mike. No that is not my own thought. I will post the research for you about the relation between Cortisol levels and PPD. And it's important to remember when blood levels are taken... any biochem people out there would agree.