View topic (Surveys about the emotional, psychological and overall impact of forced visitation on children)

Member information

« Previous

	Posted 02 January, 2010, 07:09 PM #29795
Surveys about the emotional, psychological and overall impact of forced visitation on children
interested Bronze Member	I'm wondering if there have been any surveys/studies done about the long term effects on children forced to have visitation with non custodial parents and with particular interest regarding visitation centres. Would anyone have any information orstories regarding this?
	,

	Posted 02 January, 2010, 07:14 PM #29796
Liberi Primoris Silver Member	I am sure that there would have been studies. I would be having a look at the Australian Journal of Family Law where any studies would be referred to. Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on the site (Look for the Avatars). Be mindful what you post in the public areas. For total privacy join SRL-R at www.srl-resources.org for in-depth, reliable and confidential family law support. 66 family law forums. All members are verified. No search engines, no public forums, no visitors, no guests, no ex's.
	,

	Posted 11 January, 2010, 08:38 AM #29919
Guest Non-joined user	I'm (Name removed by Moderator as appears there may be operating orders in this case. The user site name is Justin), so ignore the guest handle this site gives me, You ask a good question and I would believe the answer is NO. Such an inquiry would prove the Family Court is destroying our concept of what a proper family is, the purpose of the Marriage and Family Law Acts (enduring longevity of a natural family not 1 that is inundated with step parents). In about 1974 the divorce stat's, if I remember correct, were about 1 in 5 of marriages, if I heard correct just before Christmas, they are about 1 in 2 marriages end in divorce. The only thing I can add to your question or concern is I would not use such a Centre myself because it would support I had done things I have never done. On the other hand, if such wrongs had been done that should not have done, such Centres would show such things will never occur again and that the person can be trusted never to do those things again. It comes down to the person, if they did and now know they should not have therefore will not do again what they did. Or if they did not and they can attend the Centre to show from day 1 the children are not scarred therefore there is no need for supervised spending time together, or fear due to alienation by the other party that would cause a Stockholm Syndrome behaviour by the children. This behaviour would not be present when the other party was not present unless server therefore would not be adverse to a father's spending time with the children. Demonstrating a fear of the mother could cause the children to go to foster care which the judge who sat in judgement implied if the children could not live with the mother and has occurred where the mother had been proven as an other than best choice for the children to live with. I ran and now 6 yrs later my son is asking to spend time with me, although he witnessed the mothers lies to the lawyer and claimed the lies were the truth to the lawyer for fear of reprisals by the mother as do most abused children. He wishes to set aside his and her wrongs in favour of getting to know me without supervision. (Name removed by Moderator) Last edit: 11 January, 2010, 11:08 AM by Secretary SPCA
	,

	Posted 11 January, 2010, 01:46 PM #29924
interested Bronze Member	Thank you for the replies. I am particularly interested in the long term effects on children when forced to have visitation. ie. regressing, nightmares, bad behaviour, not wanting the visits to occur. What steps can a good parent take to try to minimalize the impact that visitation has on the child, ie to stop the above type of effects.
	,

	Posted 11 January, 2010, 02:27 PM #29925
CrazyWorld Silver Member	Well my children's father came to pick them up for half hollies a few days ago and like always they knew that their father was coming to collect them and the moment his car came into the driveway they all began bouncing up and down (huge smiles on their faces) in excitement that their father had arrived. I'm thinking that the effects on children with having forced visitation would all really depend on the respective ages of the children. Meaning that when young if you play your cards right and project a positive attitude yourself, then you can get children excited/accustomised to most things even those things they might not really want to do in general (not limiting this to contact). Whereas with older children (teens) most don't really want to be forced to do too much at all (if they don't want to) and in their down time would rather enjoy their extra curricular activities or hang out with their peers than be stuck at home for extended regular periods with the "olds" (lives with parent or not). If you don't crowd their personal space when they're with you this becomes a little bit less of an issue. You don't have to like somebody to respect the importance of their relationship with the children and unless there is a legit underlying reason (not meaning the adults opinions), then being positive and encouraging a relationship is always the best way to go. Children are not always credited with having emotions the same as adults, but they do, the difference is however that unlike adults who become more rigid in their thoughts with age, children's minds are very malleable which is why they adjust to change so much better and why too the concept of force when a parent is doing the right thing by encouraging (especially with younger children) is really a moot point. "Never, "for the sake of peace and quiet," deny your own experience or convictions". Dag Hammarskjold
	,

	Posted 30 January, 2010, 02:05 PM #30440
interested Bronze Member	CrazyWorld said Well my children's father came to pick them up for half hollies a few days ago and like always they knew that their father was coming to collect them and the moment his car came into the driveway they all began bouncing up and down (huge smiles on their faces) in excitement that their father had arrived. I'm thinking that the effects on children with having forced visitation would all really depend on the respective ages of the children. Meaning that when young if you play your cards right and project a positive attitude yourself, then you can get children excited/accustomised to most things even those things they might not really want to do in general (not limiting this to contact). Whereas with older children (teens) most don't really want to be forced to do too much at all (if they don't want to) and in their down time would rather enjoy their extra curricular activities or hang out with their peers than be stuck at home for extended regular periods with the "olds" (lives with parent or not). If you don't crowd their personal space when they're with you this becomes a little bit less of an issue. You don't have to like somebody to respect the importance of their relationship with the children and unless there is a legit underlying reason (not meaning the adults opinions), then being positive and encouraging a relationship is always the best way to go. Children are not always credited with having emotions the same as adults, but they do, the difference is however that unlike adults who become more rigid in their thoughts with age, children's minds are very malleable which is why they adjust to change so much better and why too the concept of force when a parent is doing the right thing by encouraging (especially with younger children) is really a moot point. That's so nice that your children get excited, but it has nothing to do with what I asked. I asked about forced visitation with particular interest regarding visitation centres, which it does not sound like you use or have experiences with. Has anyone had a child or children who regularly become hysterical during an enforced visit?
	,

	Posted 30 January, 2010, 10:35 PM #30448
ajae Bronze Member	Regularly?? At the risk of sounding hysterical myself, I'm wondering, since your first post regarding this issue was in the beginning of January, and your most recent being at the end of January, have you not consulted with a child psychologist and others about your child's nightmares and traumas yet? I can understand your post in beginning of January, but if you still haven't made progress or sought other help apart from this forum then someone needs to point you in the right direction. Please tell me the child concerned has not continued to suffer for a month? And surely someone at the visitation centre would have noticed a problem? FYI, I have no experience with visitation centres. But reckon I can detect distress in a child when I see it, or read about it.
	,

	Posted 30 January, 2010, 11:54 PM #30451
beautifulDAY Bronze Member	Hi interested, I do not have experience with visitation centres but I have experience with " children who regularly become hysterical during an enforced visit", as I work in a pre-school. If the children you talk about are under 6 yrs of age I would not be overly concerned especially if the visitation has only recently commenced. Young children often react to separation anxiety by becoming very distressed. I had one child who would vomit every time he came to pre-school from crying so much, then one day about 3 months later he realised he had to come and his crying was not working in getting his mum to stay and he stopped.(Or maybe he got used to coming and realised he was safe and his mum would come back?) He walked into school every day from then on with a big smile on his face and had a fantastic day! This happens often , especially in the under 3's. Like CRAZYWORLD said a parent projecting a positive attitude really helps, which is hard if your child is distressed, it is natural to sympathise but better to say only positive things ,e.g pre-school is fun ! and talk about all the positives . Also reassure the child : you are safe and mummy will come back ! From my observation often a parent gets validation that their kid loves them, when the child crys on separation. I have seen parents who's child is settled and happy(when they usually cry) seemingly go out of their way (unconsciously I'm sure)to get the child to cry. They will say goodbye 10 times, pull sad faces say" mummy has to go now"...and finally the child crys... where if they had just said bye and left all would be O.K. If a child does not cry on the first day and doesn't seem to care the parent is going often the parent often feels bad like it some how reflects on them that the child does not love them as much as the kids who do cry. I always tell them it shows a child is emotionally well adjusted. I am not saying this is happening in your situation but it just shows how your own negative feelings although not verbalised can sometimes be reflected onto a child . If it is longer then say 3 months and the children are over 6yrs then I agree with AJAE that maybe you need to consult with a Child Psychologist and see if that is normal , why the child is reacting this way and what further steps you can take to help the child through this trauma. A child having a relationship with their father on some level is almost always the best option. I had a friend who's mother did not facilitate his relationship with his father(even though the father was guilty of domestic violence against the mother and an alcoholic etc) He grew up ,re connected with his father and for the past 10 years has had little contact with his mother. That taught me a lesson. All the best
	,

	Posted 31 January, 2010, 02:23 PM #30465
interested Bronze Member	ajae, it is not my child, however I am very concerned which is why I have asked the question. yes parent Y sought help from various professionals immediately problems started to occur, they have all said that parent Y is doing everything possible to help the child, but the problems are getting worse with each visit not better. It is extremely distressing to parent Y that the child is suffering and they are desperate to find a way to help their child. points to consider: 1. the child had no problems with visitation for the first few months 2. parent Y does want the child to have a relationship with parent X, never speaks negatively about parent X, and the childs best interests, health and wellbeing are their primary focus. 3. parent X has an extremely negative attitude towards parent Y, can be violent, does not interact very well with children and is far more interested in their own wants and rights than their childs wellbeing
	,

	Posted 31 January, 2010, 11:31 PM #30478
CrazyWorld Silver Member	Interested, how do you know that the child is unsettled during the visitation for such a lengthy period of time? Are you the person supervising the visitation or is this the feedback the mother is being given at the end of the visitations? You are correct I have never needed to use a contact/visitation centre but I would imagine it could not be terribly different to any other child care environment i.e. child care, kinder, school where a child would be left in another's care, (for some children not without a fight) with the exception here being that the carer is the father. I'm also gathering Interested, that given you're asking about changing Final Orders in another post that this went to trial and the supervised visits are what the Court determined to be in the best interests of the child. Certainly I do not know the full story and it's obvious that you are very concerned about the child (and mother) otherwise you would not have posted here but (and I might be jumping the gun here) when I join all of the posts you have written together it seems to make me think that what you are really trying to find out is information about how you can have contacts stopped completely? You have said the child is young...perhaps if you could give an age group it would be easier to assist? "Never, "for the sake of peace and quiet," deny your own experience or convictions". Dag Hammarskjold
	,

	Posted 01 February, 2010, 10:23 AM #30493
interested Bronze Member	CrazyWorld said Interested, how do you know that the child is unsettled during the visitation for such a lengthy period of time? Are you the person supervising the visitation or is this the feedback the mother is being given at the end of the visitations? You are correct I have never needed to use a contact/visitation centre but I would imagine it could not be terribly different to any other child care environment i.e. child care, kinder, school where a child would be left in another's care, (for some children not without a fight) with the exception here being that the carer is the father. I'm also gathering Interested, that given you're asking about changing Final Orders in another post that this went to trial and the supervised visits are what the Court determined to be in the best interests of the child. Certainly I do not know the full story and it's obvious that you are very concerned about the child (and mother) otherwise you would not have posted here but (and I might be jumping the gun here) when I join all of the posts you have written together it seems to make me think that what you are really trying to find out is information about how you can have contacts stopped completely? You have said the child is young...perhaps if you could give an age group it would be easier to assist? i will answer in point form 1. I have heard the child screaming whilst the visit is occuring (from across the road) 2. Parent Y has been called to pick up the child early on a number of occasions as the child is hysterical and inconsolable, child has refused to enter the room where parent X is. 3. it's a completely different environment than any child care, kinder etc, there are often only the worker and parent X in the room with the child, no other children to interact with, reports to parent Y have indicated that child interacts more with the worker than parent X 4. Final Orders were made by consent (no trial) both parents agreed to the supervised access due to prior (proven) threats that had been made by parent X 5. I am only interested in the childs best interests (being safety, health, total wellbeing) 6. this is not at all about having contacts stopped - it is purely about concern for the childs welbeing 7. Parent Y is a parent who fully understands, appreciates, and accepts the importance of children knowing & spending time with the other parent (naturally with the childs safety and wellbeing as the primary focus) 8. parent X is the one who wants the orders changed after less than 20 hours of contact with the child (had they not withdrawn from visitation originally then contact would have been a lot more) 8. age is 3 it is tearing parent Y apart that the child is suffering and they just want to find out information to help the child which is natural isn't it?
	,

	Posted 01 February, 2010, 12:12 PM #30498
CrazyWorld Silver Member	Interested you have said that the Orders were made by consent. I'm just wondering if there is a provision in the Orders which says something about "parent Y" being contacted during a visitation if the child is unsettled? Know I by no means want to sound as though I am trying to downplay the situation (like I said previously I'm not really sure of the full circumstances...although you have now provided a bit of a window) but the reason I ask is that there is the possibility that in view of the age of the child (we all know that 2/3 yr olds are prone to tantrums at the best of times and are not at all silly about what works to get their own way) that contacting "parent Y" during the visit has only just exacerbated the situation and thus detracted from the child's adjustment to the contacts? Now I do realise that you have said that there were threats (I'm assuming these were made by "parent X" only towards "parent Y") but even in view of that, it is a supervised centre with staff who SHOULD have experience in this area and so contacting "parent Y" (unless it is part of the Orders) as opposed to giving "parent X" the opportunity to learn about the child and spend time with him/her, could be the reason that "parent X" now wants to return to Court. 20 hours of contact to date isn't too many in the scheme of things...there are another 15 years to go from here! I know you've already addressed this too but I'll redirect you back to the previous posts of ajae and beautifulDAY in relation to seeking help for the child...if this is really such a huge problem, child psychology on a weekly basis might be something to consider. Good Luck "Never, "for the sake of peace and quiet," deny your own experience or convictions". Dag Hammarskjold
	,

	Posted 01 February, 2010, 03:00 PM #30500
MikeT Percolo Alio	Interested said 1. I have heard the child screaming whilst the visit is occuring (from across the road) 2. Parent Y has been called to pick up the child early on a number of occasions as the child is hysterical and inconsolable, child has refused to enter the room where parent X is. 3. it's a completely different environment than any child care, kinder etc, there are often only the worker and parent X in the room with the child, no other children to interact with, reports to parent Y have indicated that child interacts more with the worker than parent X 4. Final Orders were made by consent (no trial) both parents agreed to the supervised access due to prior (proven) threats that had been made by parent X 5. I am only interested in the childs best interests (being safety, health, total wellbeing) 6. this is not at all about having contacts stopped - it is purely about concern for the childs welbeing 7. Parent Y is a parent who fully understands, appreciates, and accepts the importance of children knowing & spending time with the other parent (naturally with the childs safety and wellbeing as the primary focus) 8. parent X is the one who wants the orders changed after less than 20 hours of contact with the child (had they not withdrawn from visitation originally then contact would have been a lot more) I'm a little confused, as to say 7 and 8, I would have thought that you must know and speak to both parents to be able to relate what each thinks/says. Perhaps I'm missing something in regards to how you have obtained this information. I think it would be clearer if you elaborated. The worker, a worker who is supervising the contact, I assume, would very likely be a mandatory reporter, as such if you believe that the worker is not protecting the child from what appears to be at least emotional abuse, then to protect the child you should report the worker. If it's only the worker and parent in the room with the child, then who has reported the situation to the other parent? I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't be the parent, It would appear to only be the worker and considering that the worker is not reporting something that I believe from what you say should be reported, can you definitely rule out that the worker is reporting this only to protect them-self? Personally if I knew both parents enough to be privvy to their thoughts and I heard what you described, then I would go and ask if I could be of assistance.
	,

	Posted 02 February, 2010, 12:26 AM #30519
kalimnadancer Silver Member	Who runs the contact centre. To my limited knowledge the centre should provide assistance to settle the child and aid a time spent with the child to be enjoyable for all parties. Unfortunately contact centres can be one sided in their approach and favour the "living with" parent (who is usually the mother) and forget they are there for the children.
	,

	Posted 03 February, 2010, 09:22 AM #30562
interested Bronze Member	kalimnadancer said Who runs the contact centre. To my limited knowledge the centre should provide assistance to settle the child and aid a time spent with the child to be enjoyable for all parties. Unfortunately contact centres can be one sided in their approach and favour the "living with" parent (who is usually the mother) and forget they are there for the children. the centre's staff have been unable to settle the child at all...after approx 15 mins of not being able to settle the child they then contact parent y to come and collect the child... the centre has on a number of occasions shown bias against parent y and have acted in parent x's favour rather than in the best interests of the child 1. parent y was not under any obligation to use that particular service 2. centre refused to follow both ICL and family report writers recommendations that contact start at one hour due to the age of the child and tried to bully parent y about it 3. contact worker offered parent x support by providing a letter stating that parent y was breaching the orders (wholly untrue and parent x was forced to withdraw the breach application by the court, legal practitioner for parent x was dressed down quite severely by the court) 4. reduced the visitation time permanently to suit parent x who wished to 'catch a train' (they would have had 15 minutes to wait had the centre kept to the allotted time) but have refused to alter visitation time to suit the childs routine better.
	,

	Posted 03 February, 2010, 10:05 AM #30564
Agog Percolo Alio	interested said the centre has on a number of occasions shown bias against parent y and have acted in parent x's favour rather than in the best interests of the child 1. parent y was not under any obligation to use that particular service Interested some of the site Execs have been following your posts quite closely. You seem to have an intimate knowledge of the all the finer details of the arrangements and so called 'bias' interested said 2. centre refused to follow both ICL and family report writers recommendations that contact start at one hour due to the age of the child and tried to bully parent y about it How would you have access to the ICL and the contents of the Family Report? A parent is under no obligation to follow 'recommendations' unless they are made made a judicial officer. Either you are one of the Parents posting as 'this happens to a friend' or you are involved with the child's supervision or some other close arrangement. I would suggest you abandon your selective approach in postings before one or some of the moderators consider you are misleading readers. Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (look for the Avatars) Be mindful what you post in public areas. For total privacy, join SRL-R at www.srl-resources.org for In-depth, reliable and confidential family law support. 66 Family Law forums. All members are verified. No search engines, no public forums, no visitors, no guests, no ex's.
	,

	Posted 03 February, 2010, 12:57 PM #30565
CrazyWorld Silver Member	Interested I have a suggestion for you. If it is simply a matter of you not wanting to expose the real details (or who you are) in plain view, perhaps you might want to "Whisper" to one of the execs/moderators and explain the actual circumstances (no one else but the person you whisper to and the other site execs will be able to see this), that way you might be understood better. Cheers "Never, "for the sake of peace and quiet," deny your own experience or convictions". Dag Hammarskjold
	,

	Posted 03 February, 2010, 01:47 PM #30566
faith Silver Member	Everyone has made good suggestions on seeking help like a counsellor. My children have been through this and have to go to dad's days at a time, not supervised anymore. I found a good counsellor who has helped the children immensely and found that taking a positive step on speaking to the children about their dads house has been great improvement for them in this situation, even if things still happen they are easier in speaking about it if i am supportive. One was sleep walking to the point of trying to break a glass door thinking their at dads but that has eased up now with the counselling.
	,

	Posted 04 February, 2010, 02:44 AM #30591
rabbit Bronze Member	Just a little personal experience that might be relevant. My 2 daughters were (at one point in time) visiting with their dad every other weekend. Never any problems, no history of violence or abuse, they had a great relationship with him, and he and I were getting along. The kids called and asked me to drop off some jackets one weekend, and when my youngest (then 4) got on the phone, she suddenly began crying and said she wanted to come home. I asked her why, and she said "Daddy is being mean to me". After some more questioning and attempts to talk her around, I made the fatal error of telling her that if she was really not happy, I would not make her stay, and I picked her up (amidst Dad's protests that she was overreacting). All I could think was that my baby was really upset and needed me, and I couldn't turn my back on her. In retrospect I know that it would have served her better to learn that she can stick it out even when it gets tough, and that mum won't cave to emotional blackmail, but I let emotion cloud my judgement at the time. This was the beginning of a LONG battle to get her to stay the whole night ANYWHERE. Every visit with Dad in the following months eventually turned to waterworks and demands to go home. The same started happening with grandparents, friends etc. I tried to turn it around and teach her that this wasn't acceptable, but the damage was done. She saw my weakness, and played on it big time. There were tears, tantrums, anger, begging and pleading... you name it. This one instance set a long running precedent that even now at age 9 still pops up occasionally. There was no violence, trauma, abuse, or psychological issues... just a kid who got what she wanted once and pulled every trick to try to continue that.
	,

	Posted 04 February, 2010, 07:54 AM #30596
interested Bronze Member	crazyworld nothing on the orders about parent y being contacted during the visit, that is the centre's protocol if the child is unable to be settled within a reasonable time. mikeT the worker has reported what has been occurring faith professional help has been sought for the child. thanks for your comment rabbit. The child has had no problems when in anyone elses care (ie child care, parent y's partner, other relatives or friends) there is only this reaction whilst in parent x's care at visitation.
	,