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Have I crossed a line here?
Posted 15 February, 2012, 01:42 PM
#45452
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Does anyone think I've crossed a line here? - I haven't seen my children for over a month now, we have a parenting plan which isn't being honoured and I've sent numerous emails these last few weeks requesting to see our children. I don't have her phone number and she has requested before that I don't come around to her house for any reason ever. So I showed up at her work this morning to see if I could talk with her face to face and now she's claiming that I have been intimidating her and she can't handle talking to me at all. The thing is i'm not intimidating I've never abused either verbally or physically all I want is to see my children before I go to Afghanistan could what I've done be grounds for police attention because she seems to think it is? Any help would be great.
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Posted 15 February, 2012, 03:25 PM
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proudfather said

she's claiming that I have been intimidating her and she can't handle talking to me at all.
It depends how she feels and feels is the key word,  I might expect you may well get a knock on your door by the police if she played the DV card.  I can only speak to my own case, I was never engaged in abuse and later had all three weapon of family law used on me....

1.  The silver bullet- she took out an AVO on me and included the children on it. 
2.  The Big guns.   Accused me of abuse (Form 4)

Finally

The nuclear option - I was accused of sexually abusing the children.  

2 1/2 years later and much money into the lawyers pocket, a single expert report was completed and said no abuse of any kind occurred but the damage has been done.   She had years to poison the children and that's what happened.  If she pays the DV card fight it all the way but never do anything that would violate the order even if she invites you to do so...   Other members may have additional advice. 
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Posted 15 February, 2012, 03:40 PM
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It's a terrifying thought for me to be slapped with an AVO, especially considering my job and my gun license would be on the line. All I'm trying to do is communicate with this woman and she goes to unbelievable lengths to remain uncontactable and unresponsive to even the most basic gestures of talk about the children.

I believe shes playing the battered woman card and trying to incite a response from me thats a little bit irrational how do you even protect your self from something so insidious when all you want is to see your daughter for her first birthday before going away for a long period of time?

Sorry to hear about what happened to you mate sounds like your up against quite a piece of work there.

We have been split up for over a year and in that time I've seen my children for a total of 22 HRS over 24 visits, as soon as I mentioned that I wasn't happy with the rate of contact and I wanted more and that I'm going to file a case....BAM no contact no talking no anything just threats of her moving away, and me never seeing my daughters again. Its a damn crying shame.

As I mentioned I have never done anything to her to incite this other than mention I want my children more. If anything her short memory amazes me she seems to forget that we broke up because I was sick of being sworn at and emotionally abused every day and having plates thrown at me.

I really wish she would wake up so we just parent these children together.

grumble.
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Posted 15 February, 2012, 03:52 PM
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Have you spoken to your CO or legal officer? - I have some dealings with the military. Are you Sydney based?

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on the site (Look for the Avatars).   Be mindful what you post in the public areas
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Posted 15 February, 2012, 03:59 PM
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Im Brisbane based our legal officers don't deal with this sort of thing unfortunately and my CO is the last person I'd talk to about it! In the military if you have family problems you get labelled and quietly shoved elsewhere to deal with your problems. I've been going through this for sometime however and I'm capable of ealing with it just need some advice as to actions on should she go down this path.....should I get my foot in the door and talk to the police first?
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Posted 15 February, 2012, 04:07 PM
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OK - I understand. I am ex military.

Do not talk to the police. Contact the pro bono section of the law society in Queensland, if they are anything like NSW, they will be very understanding and are very realistic about what woman can be like.

You must NOT agree to the AVO without admissions. Ask them to show cause.

Make an appointment with the FRC and try to obtain a certificate to take the mater to court.

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on the site (Look for the Avatars).   Be mindful what you post in the public areas
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Posted 15 February, 2012, 04:15 PM
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I've got a 60i the problem is money or lack of it! soon not going to be a problem once I'm deployed again and getting some good income. Hopefully after I'm done fighting terrorists I can finally fight for my children. When you say show cause does that mean the police need to show cause or does she?
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Posted 15 February, 2012, 05:00 PM
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If she approaches the police they will most likely not take out a AVO because you don't live together.  She will most likely be told to approach the court to obtain one as a private applicant.  She will have a hard time getting one based on one incident of you turning up at work, she would need to show a history of you behaving in a threatening manner.

Is it worth going back to mediation to have parenting plan turned into consent orders?  
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Posted 15 February, 2012, 06:49 PM
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April said

Is it worth going back to mediation to have parenting plan turned into consent orders?  

If you've got the 60I recently there there is no need for mediation to go to court. However, if both of you agree then you could get the parenting plan converted into consent orders and filed by the court registrar and thus no need to have any court hearings nor a 60I certificate.

If CS is an issue i.e. the other parent has told the CSA that the level of care has changed to 0, you can have the level of care changed back for 14 weeks (from when the level of care changed) and then take reasonable action to have court orders made (i.e. as described in the previous paragraph). The parenting plan has to be in writing and signed by both parties.

Disclaimer - I apologise for any adverse reaction/feeling you may have if you are not of sound mind and therefore take this disclaimer and everything I post ridiculously out of context and see the hidden gender-biased messages that my lack of self-awareness allows me to actually be aware of and compose without actually even composing them.

Thanking Larissap for the inspiration behind this signature.

When asked about hand written notes on the document marked as Exhibit 3 the best that the Applicant maternal grandmother could say was :
 It looks like my handwriting!
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Posted 16 February, 2012, 07:36 AM
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proudfather said

It's a terrifying thought for me to be slapped with an AVO, especially considering my job and my gun license would be on the line. All I'm trying to do is communicate with this woman and she goes to unbelievable lengths to remain uncontactable and unresponsive to even the most basic gestures of talk about the children.

I believe shes playing the battered woman card and trying to incite a response from me thats a little bit irrational how do you even protect your self from something so insidious when all you want is to see your daughter for her first birthday before going away for a long period of time?

Sorry to hear about what happened to you mate sounds like your up against quite a piece of work there.

We have been split up for over a year and in that time I've seen my children for a total of 22 HRS over 24 visits, as soon as I mentioned that I wasn't happy with the rate of contact and I wanted more and that I'm going to file a case....BAM no contact no talking no anything just threats of her moving away, and me never seeing my daughters again. Its a damn crying shame.

As I mentioned I have never done anything to her to incite this other than mention I want my children more. If anything her short memory amazes me she seems to forget that we broke up because I was sick of being sworn at and emotionally abused every day and having plates thrown at me.

I really wish she would wake up so we just parent these children together.

grumble.
 
You've just told my story. Unfortunately the law is designed to pander to women who choose to act in this way. Good luck.
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Posted 16 February, 2012, 08:04 AM
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Proudfather said

When you say show cause does that mean the police need to show cause or does she?

I think what Monti is saying is that by not accepting an AVO without admission, prosecution, if they want to continue, will need evidence/cause. I'm not sure, Monti is far more versed in Family Law/Law than I am, but I suspect that it would go no further.

Basically the offer of accepting an AVO without admission is a quick and efficient way to clear the matter from the court list. Many solicitors will say that you'll not be hassled further and basically persuade you to accept it. However, an AVO, with or without admission, can have serious consequences and be restrictive.

Disclaimer - I apologise for any adverse reaction/feeling you may have if you are not of sound mind and therefore take this disclaimer and everything I post ridiculously out of context and see the hidden gender-biased messages that my lack of self-awareness allows me to actually be aware of and compose without actually even composing them.

Thanking Larissap for the inspiration behind this signature.

When asked about hand written notes on the document marked as Exhibit 3 the best that the Applicant maternal grandmother could say was :
 It looks like my handwriting!
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Posted 16 February, 2012, 08:39 AM
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I could never accept it because to date all I have done is threaten her with legal action! And it's really my only course of action. If it does happen how many things doe's she have to prove?
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Posted 16 February, 2012, 09:59 AM
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The evidence for a DVO in QLD does not have to be substantiated. If she is prone to lying then she could make up anything she wants and it basically it will be your word against hers.
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Posted 16 February, 2012, 10:04 AM
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Really? So she could just say it and basically I would have to prove it didn't happened? How did our country get this way!
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Posted 16 February, 2012, 10:32 AM
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Proudfather,
                this isn't an area where I've got much knowledge. However, here's an extract from  the Queensland DOMESTIC AND FAMILY VIOLENCE PROTECTION ACT 1989 :

DOMESTIC AND FAMILY VIOLENCE PROTECTION ACT 1989 - SECT 11 said

11 What is domestic violence

(1) Domestic violence is any of the following acts that a person commits against another person if a domestic relationship exists between the 2 persons–

    (a) wilful injury;

    (b) wilful damage to the other person's property;

    Example of paragraph (b)–

    wilfully injuring a defacto's pet

    (c ) intimidation or harassment of the other person;

    Examples of paragraph (c )–

    1 following an estranged spouse when the spouse is out in public, either by car or on foot

    2 positioning oneself outside a relative's residence or place of work

    3 repeatedly telephoning an ex-boyfriend at home or work without consent (whether during the day or night)

    4 regularly threatening an aged parent with the withdrawal of informal care if the parent does not sign over the parent's fortnightly pension cheque

    (d) indecent behaviour to the other person without consent;

    (e) a threat to commit an act mentioned in paragraphs (a) to (d).

(2) The person committing the domestic violence need not personally commit the act or threaten to commit it.

So you'd be defending against 11(c ). Basically you'd be left in the hands of the Magistrate to decide whether or not the appearance at the other parent's workplace was or was not intimidation or harassment. I don't think the latter due to it being a one of occurrence so it's whether or not it is intimidation.

I'd suggest that you need to get legal advice as how to defend against this should the need arise.

Obviously don't go anywhere near the other parent under any circumstances whatsoever without the means of getting evidence to protect yourself e.g. witnesses (if the other parent is being coached there is a good chance that the other parent may try to create situations). Arrange mediation and try to get the boll rolling in regards to getting some orders in place. Hopefully Monti will say a lot more.

Last edit: 16 February, 2012, 06:44 PM by Secretary SPCA

Disclaimer - I apologise for any adverse reaction/feeling you may have if you are not of sound mind and therefore take this disclaimer and everything I post ridiculously out of context and see the hidden gender-biased messages that my lack of self-awareness allows me to actually be aware of and compose without actually even composing them.

Thanking Larissap for the inspiration behind this signature.

When asked about hand written notes on the document marked as Exhibit 3 the best that the Applicant maternal grandmother could say was :
 It looks like my handwriting!
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Posted 16 February, 2012, 10:36 AM
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Proudfather said

Really? So she could just say it and basically I would have to prove it didn't happened? How did our country get this way!

Many would say feminism or radical feminism. However, it's not this country, it's most of the Western world and more.

Disclaimer - I apologise for any adverse reaction/feeling you may have if you are not of sound mind and therefore take this disclaimer and everything I post ridiculously out of context and see the hidden gender-biased messages that my lack of self-awareness allows me to actually be aware of and compose without actually even composing them.

Thanking Larissap for the inspiration behind this signature.

When asked about hand written notes on the document marked as Exhibit 3 the best that the Applicant maternal grandmother could say was :
 It looks like my handwriting!
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Posted 16 February, 2012, 10:37 AM
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proudfather said

Really? So she could just say it and basically I would have to prove it didn't happened? How did our country get this way!
 
There's been a big push from many directions to reverse the burden of proof in matters relating to gender-based disputes. CSA is one example, based on the originalprecedent set by tax laws and family violence is another. The justification is that an AVO/DVO is simply an administrative order, in much the same way that an administrative warning may be given to a serviceman. It isn't a criminal penalty, but it does place an obligation not to breach the order on the person it's made against. Breaching the order may result in serious penalties for doing so, although no criminal action may have occurred.

All of this is basic Feminist doctrinal stuff and it suits weak-minded legislators who want to pander to specific groups without having to justify criminalising behaviour that doesn't fit within the Criminal Code, such as having arguments where nobody is hurt, or turning up at the ex's work...

Wegot this way because for 40 years men have been letting themselves get manipulated into passing laws that fly in the face of basic principles of justice in order to secure the somewhat monolithic "women's vote". Unscrupulous feminist activists have painted any dissent as "misogyny" or "woman hating" and playing the dishonest "if you really liked women you'd do this little thing, after all, what have you got to hide?" game with great effect.
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Posted 16 February, 2012, 10:55 AM
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DVO'S probably started out as some move to protect women but now 40% of DVO's in some states are being taken out by a man against a women.

Good luck with it proudfather. Only contact you should be having with her is through a solicitor. I really despise people who abuse the whole DVO provisions. Research in QLD has shown that 90% of DVO's are taken out in spite, not because of genuine domestic violence. If you are going to fight it you will need a good solicitor, not too many people are successful in contesting a DVO.  
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Posted 16 February, 2012, 11:40 AM
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The problem with me getting a DVO is my job and the fact that I'm deploying soon it would totally kill any chances of that and therefore my ability to earn enough money to pay a lawyer and get my kids back in the first case....so in all she has only ever asked me to not come to her house which I never have out of courtesy and the fact that she politely asked me. Although I invited her to my place, I don't have a problem with not visiting her. However after repeated attempts at emailing her to get her to address my concerns I felt that my only option would be to see her at her work. As it happened I turned up at exactly the same time she turned up and she was exiting her car in the street when I approached her. So It's not like I waited for her like some seedy back street stalker. I just wanted answers as to why she was refusing to let me see the children. In fact I was terrified myself I felt so uncomfortable and made to feel like it was wrong of me to even dare to ask if I could see my kids. I hate feeling like this. I think the lawyer option may be the right path to go down now. She really is incapable of any coherant conversation about our childrens future.
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Posted 16 February, 2012, 12:05 PM
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Have you looked into the DVO aspect of your job. I remember the ADF (about 3 years ago) released a statement declaring they are not bound by QLD state and territory court or police orders in relation the  weapons section on DVO orders.

The ADF exemption was granted under a specific section (can't remember the number) of the Queensland Weapons Act
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