Home | WEB Guide | News | Community | Forums | Search
ForumsForums,
RulesRules,
GroupsGroups,
UnreadUnread,
RecommendRecommend,
DonateDonate,

Skip navigation

Member information

    [ Join | More options ]


,   Reply,   Add topic,  



Help dont know what to do
child support and granparents
Posted 19 February, 2012, 02:10 PM
#45722
General Member

Rank image
I am very new and hope i may get some answers or advise,we have care of 2 grandchildren,and looking at a time order for 2 years,my son and his partner are not helping care for these 2 very small boys finacially,what i would like to know which most agencies wont tell me,or just fob me off, is are they responsible for at least something towards their care or does an order have to be in place.I am really tired of the endless sorry cant help you,i want my son and his partner to help he has a good paying job and mother doesnt work,i hope someone here may or may not be able to help,Thank you
Back to the top
Quote post (45722),  
 
Posted 19 February, 2012, 03:11 PM
#45723
Avatar
Platinium Member

Rank image
I believe you are entitled to some payment under Centrelink and they now have a section in Centrelink for grandparents caring for children.  This very issue was on Today Tonight during this past week.   If a payment is going to the parents to raise the children this should be going to you instead.  I believe the parents should be assisting you financially as well and not take you for granted.  

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.  M K Gandhi
Back to the top
Quote post (45723),  
 
Help dont know what to do
Posted 19 February, 2012, 04:37 PM
#45731
General Member

Rank image
I have been to centerlink and basically been told,we earn to much,so they were very helpful,i have rung and gone to separate offices and all say the same,i just wanted to make the parents accountable for their sons its not that i want the money it is for them so they will at least have something

Thanks for the information
Back to the top
Quote post (45731),  
 
Posted 19 February, 2012, 09:12 PM
#45737
Platinium Member

Rank image
You can advise CentreLink or Family Assistance Office that you have 100% care of the children so at lease they wont be handing over money parents with no care %.

Mike T has accurate access to the info you need to make a decision. This is tricky if you want to maintain some sort of relationship with your son.

Do you have court ordered care of the children?
Back to the top
Quote post (45737),  
 
Posted 19 February, 2012, 09:40 PM
#45741
Avatar
Percolo Alio

Rank image
Rank image
Rank image
The parents of the child can be held to be financially responsible. You can apply to the Child Support Agency as a non-parent carer. You must have at least shared care (35% care or the child or children).

Here's a section of the CSA Guide:

The CSA Guide - 2.1.1: Applications for assessment said

2.1.1: Applications for assessment


A parent, or non-parent carer who is an eligible carer, can apply to CSA for an administrative assessment of child support for a child.
Legislative references

    Sections 5,7B, 25, 25A, 26, 26A, 27, 28, 29A, 29B, 30 and 150A Child Support (Assessment) Act 1989
    Regulations 5, 12 Child Support (Assessment) Regulations 1989

Applications from parents

All parents can apply to CSA for an administrative assessment of child support for a child (sections 25) regardless of the amount of care they provide for their child.

A parent can apply to CSA for a child support assessment for a child if they are not living with the other parent of the child as their partner (section 25(b)). When a parent makes an application for child support, that application means that both they and the other parent will be assessed in respect of the costs of the children (section 25 (a)).

As both parents are assessed in respect of the costs of the children, the roles of payer and payee and the amount of child support payable will depend on the incomes of both parents and the care they each provide for the children (see Chapter 2.4 Formula Assessment). If the income and/or care percentage changes, the roles may reverse and the child support assessment will continue without the need for a new application for child support.

If either parent is not a resident of Australia on the day of the application then there are additional considerations, see 'Application for assessment where one parent is not a resident of Australia' below.

Applications from non-parent carers

A non-parent carer can apply to CSA for an administrative assessment of child support for a child (section 25A) if they:

    are an eligible carer of the child; and
    are not living as the partner of either parent on a genuine domestic basis; and
    do not have care jointly with a parent of the child (section 26);

AND

    apply against both parents, or
    apply against one parent only when
        the other parent is not a resident of Australia or a reciprocating jurisdiction; or
        CSA is satisfied that there are special circumstances; or
        the other parent is deceased

If either parent is not a resident of Australia on the day of the application then there are additional considerations, see 'Application for assessment where one parent is not a resident of Australia' below.

Where both parents are assessed in respect of the costs of the child, there is a single administrative assessment based on the income of both parents and any care that they may have of the child (see Chapter 2.4.8 Assessment with a non-parent carer). However, each parent may have a separate liability to the non-parent carer as a result of this assessment, or one parent may have a liability to both the non-parent carer and the other parent.
Where parents have more than one child

Where parents have more than one child from their relationship, they may apply for an administrative assessment for some or all of the children. An application for more than one child is treated as if it were separate applications for each child (section 28).

If parents choose not to apply for an assessment for a child, then that child will not be included when assessing the costs of children for the other children. Either parent may apply for an assessment for the child at any time, and an assessment will start from that date, if the relevant requirements are met.

Where there is no assessment for a child, the child may be a relevant dependent child if other criteria are met.

See Chapter 2.4 for more information about assessments and the costs of children.

Eligible carer


An eligible carer is a person who has at least shared care of the child (section 7B). A person has shared care of a child if they have a care percentage of at least 35% for that child. See Chapter 2.2.1 for information on how care percentages are determined and used in child support assessments.

Example

M has 2 children A and B. A lives with M all the time. B stays with M 2 nights a week. M is an eligible carer of A, as M has a care percentage of 100% for A. M is not an eligible carer of B as M has a care percentage of 28% (2 nights x 52 weeks / 365 = 28) for B, less than shared care of B.

Eligible non-parent carer


A non-parent carer can apply for an assessment of child support against the parents of the child if they must have at least shared care of the child. However, a non-parent carer providing that care is not an eligible carer if:

    they are not a legal guardian of a child and
    the child's parent or legal guardian has said that they do not consent to the person caring for the child.

unless, it would be unreasonable for a parent or legal guardian of the child to care for the child (section 7B(2)).

It is unreasonable for a parent or guardian to care for the child if CSA is satisfied that:

    there has been extreme family breakdown; or
    there is a serious risk to the child's physical or mental wellbeing from violence or sexual abuse in the home of the parent or legal guardian concerned (section 7B(3)).

CSA will be satisfied that a non-parent carer meets the definition of an eligible carer once they establish that they have at least shared care of the child unless a parent or legal guardian advises CSA that they do not consent to the care arrangement.

If a parent or legal guardian advises CSA that they do not consent to the applicant providing care for the child CSA will investigate to establish whether the applicant satisfies the requirements for an eligible carer.

The terms of the legislation imply that if the parent does not agree to the care arrangements they must be prepared to provide care for the child. Some reasonable indication of an alternative living arrangement for the child is required.

Extreme family breakdown

CSA will be satisfied that there has been an extreme family breakdown if:

    the child has never lived with the parent; or
    there has been a substantial period since the parent has provided care for the child; or
    other circumstances indicate extreme family breakdown.

However, CSA is unlikely to be satisfied that there has been an extreme family breakdown if the parent has spent frequent and regular time with the child over a substantial part of the period when another person provided care for the child.

CSA may seek evidence of extreme family breakdown.

Serious risk to childs physical or mental wellbeing


When determining whether there is a serious risk to the childs mental or physical wellbeing as a result of violence or sexual abuse in the home of the parent or legal guardian, the individual circumstances of each case, including any evidence provided, will be considered by CSA. Examples of evidence that may assist to substantiate a claim of serious risk of violence/abuse to the child include, but is not limited to, police reports/statements; apprehended violence orders; domestic violence orders; medical reports; or applications for a restraining order.

Effect of a court order about the childs care

If a court has ordered that the child reside with the non-parent carer CSA will generally not look beyond the order. If a court order says that the child will reside with one of their parents and that parent tells CSA they do not consent to the child living with the non-parent carer, CSA will presume that the non-parent carer is not an eligible carer unless they can provide evidence that there has been extreme family breakdown or that there is a serious risk to the childs physical or mental wellbeing as described above.
Living together

A parent or non-parent carer may not apply for a child support assessment if they are partnered with the other parent, or a parent, of the child.

A parent or non-parent carer will generally not be sharing a residence with the other parent or parents who are to be assessed in respect of the costs of the child. However, if parents or a parent and non-parent carer are legally separated, but still both reside in the home they shared, they are not considered to be living together on a genuine domestic basis. Whether they are separated, or are still living together as partners on a genuine domestic basis, is a matter of fact and degree in each case. However, separation usually involves 3 elements:

    intention to end the relationship;
    action upon that intention; and
    communication of the intention to the other party.

Joint carers

If 2 or more people care for the child together in a residence that they share (i.e. jointly), only one of the joint carers can apply. If one of the joint carers is a parent of a child, they must be the one who applies for a child support assessment (section 26).

Example

A, a child of M and F, is in the joint care of M and Z. M can apply for a child support assessment for A. Z can not apply for a child support assessment.
Child Welfare Law


A non-parent carer who is caring for a child under a child welfare law may apply for child support only if they are the child's relative (section 26A). However, a person who is caring for a child under a child welfare law of South Australia, Western Australia, Norfolk Island, Christmas Island or the Cocos (Keeling) Islands can not apply for child support because the child is not an eligible child (section 22). Refer to Chapter 2.1.2 for information about eligible children.

Example

G has care of a grandchild, A, under a child welfare law applying in Victoria. G can apply for both parents to be assessed for the costs of the child.


Special circumstances

A non-parent carer may make an application that only one parent be assessed for the costs of the child because of the special circumstances of the case. What CSA considers to be special circumstances will depend on the particular circumstances of the non-parent carers case. It is expected that both parents will be assessed for child support whenever possible. The applicant must show that the particular circumstances regarding the child are sufficiently special that only one parent should be assessed. Special circumstances may include:

    Fear of violence;
    Harmful or disruptive effect;
    The identity of the parent is unknown to both CSA and the non-parent carer;
    No evidence for CSA to be satisfied that a person is a parent;
    Where a child has only one legal parent as a result of adoption or the provisions relating to artificial conception procedures and surrogacy under sections 60H and 60HB of the Family Law Act (see Chapter 2.1.3 for more information);
    Cultural considerations;
    Non parent carers case commenced before 1 July 2008;
    Non parent carer and one parent are overseas and non parent carer wishes to apply only against the parent in Australia; and
    Other special circumstances.

CSA may seek evidence of the special circumstances.

Application for assessment where one parent is not a resident of Australia

Where a payee resides in Australia, either party can apply for an administrative assessment if the payer is resident in a reciprocating jurisdiction (other than an excluded jurisdiction listed in regulation 5) on the day the application is made (sections 29A and 30A).  If the payer resides in a non-reciprocating jurisdiction or an excluded jurisdiction either party can apply for a court order for child maintenance under the Family Law Act 1975.

Where a payee resides outside Australia, either parent can apply for an administrative assessment if the payer resides in Australia and either:

    The payee is a resident of a reciprocating jurisdiction (section 24(2)); or
    The child in relation to whom the application is made is present in Australia on the day the application is made, and/or the child is an Australian citizen or ordinarily resident in Australia on the day the application is made (section 24(1)(b)).

Making an application from overseas

A payee who is resident in a reciprocating jurisdiction cannot make an application directly to CSA (section 29B).  If the payee resides in a reciprocating jurisdiction an application from the payee must either be:

    made by the payee and given to the overseas authority in the reciprocating jurisdiction to pass on to CSA; or
    made by the overseas authority in the reciprocating jurisdiction on behalf of the payee.

A payer who resides in a reciprocating jurisdiction can make an application directly to CSA, or give the application to the overseas authority in the reciprocating jurisdiction to pass on to CSA (section 29B).

A parent or non-parent carer who lives in a non-reciprocating jurisdiction can make an application directly to CSA.

How to apply for an assessment


CSA can specify the way in which an application for a child support assessment must be made (sections 27 and 150A). A person can make an application:

    By telephoning CSA on 131272 to make an application over the telephone.
    Electronically, by completing and lodging the forms on the CSA website at www.csa.gov.au
    In writing, by completing an 'Application for child support assessment' form. The completed form can be lodged by mail, facsimile, or personally at a CSA office, a Centrelink office or a Family Assistance Office. The forms are available from CSA offices or by calling 131 272. Printable versions of the forms are also available on the CSA website at www.csa.gov.au.
    A payee residing in a reciprocating jurisdiction must apply via the Central Authority in the jurisdiction where the payee resides.

Disclaimer - I apologise for any adverse reaction/feeling you may have if you are not of sound mind and therefore take this disclaimer and everything I post ridiculously out of context and see the hidden gender-biased messages that my lack of self-awareness allows me to actually be aware of and compose without actually even composing them.

Thanking Larissap for the inspiration behind this signature.

When asked about hand written notes on the document marked as Exhibit 3 the best that the Applicant maternal grandmother could say was :
 It looks like my handwriting!
Back to the top
Quote post (45741),  
 
Help dont know what to do
Posted 21 February, 2012, 03:52 PM
#45887
General Member

Rank image
Thanks Mike T for all that information,i have just found out today that we have a time limited 2 year order for the boys,i have been holding off until we got that order,i am still not sure wether exactly i can claim against both parents for the boys,mum doesnt work my son does and they are living together,as this is a department of child protection time order am i still able to claim child support for them from my son,i want to make sure that these boys have something when or if they ever get returned,which is unlikely given the circumstance of them coming to us as i said before my husband earns above the family tax benefit thresholds,we get a small non taxable payment which is to provide essentials for the boys,if yu can help with anymore information that would be great

Thanks
Back to the top
Quote post (45887),  
 
Posted 21 February, 2012, 04:30 PM
#45889
Avatar
Percolo Alio

Rank image
Rank image
Rank image

jumbo59 said

as this is a department of child protection time order am i still able to claim child support for them from my son

This may upon who made the order (i.e. in which state/jurisdiction). It appears that if the order was made in SA, WA, Norfolk Island, Christmas Island or Cocos (Keeling) Islands then the child/children may not be eligible children.

Both parents will probably be liable for something if the children are eligible children. If a parent is on income support or a low income (roughly below something like $22,000) and they have less than 14% care of a child then they would be paying at the minimum rate of CS ($7.09 per week and that would also be each).

If one parent is working and the other is on income support then the parent on income support would pay the minimum rate and the working parent the formula assessed rate.

If both are working then both would pay according to the formula assessed amount.

If one parent is working and the other receives no income support and has less than 35% care then it gets a little complicated but they may be assessed to pay the fixed rate of CS ($23.50 per week)for each child, up to 3 children, but can make a claim that they are on a genuinely low income

Note that your income is irrelevant.

To cover all of the above there would be heaps of stuff from the guide. As such I've only dropped in the stuff about eligible children:

The CSA Guide - 2.1.2: Eligible child said

2.1.2: Eligible child

Context

CSA can only make a child support assessment for a child who is an eligible child (section 18) and a child for whom an application can be made (section 24).
Legislative references

    Sections 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, and 24 Child Support (Assessment) Act 1989
    Regulation 4 Child Support (Assessment) Regulations 1989

Explanation

An eligible child must:

    be born on or after 1 October 1989 (the commencing day of the Assessment Act) (section 19); or
    have parents who lived together and who separated on or after 1 October 1989 (section 20); or
    have a brother or sister who was born to the same parents on or after 1 October 1989 (section 21);

and

    not be cared for under a child welfare law of South Australia, Western Australia, Norfolk Island, Christmas Island, or the Cocos (Keeling) Islands (section 22 and regulation 4).

    Note: In some situations, it may be that an order has been made pursuant to a child welfare law of the above state or island, but that order is not active. That is, the child is actually being cared for by a parent and the parent is not receiving any financial support pursuant to the order.  In those circumstances CSA may consider that the child is not under the care of a person under a child welfare law for child support purposes, and may regard the child as an eligible child despite the existence of the order.

A person can only apply for a child support assessment for an eligible child if the child is under 18 years of age (section 24(1)(a)(ii)). A person cannot apply for a child support assessment for a child who is a member of a couple (i.e. living with another person as that person's partner on a genuine domestic basis or with someone they are legally married to) (sections 5(1) and 24(1)(a)(iii)). A person cannot live with another person on a genuine domestic basis if they are aged under 16 years. This is because a person is living with another person on a genuine domestic basis if the relationship has the characteristics of the relationship of marriage and the persons are of marriageable age (FO v HAF [2006] QCA 555). Marriageable age is 16 years of age and refers to a person's capacity to marry pursuant to the Marriage Act 1961 (Cth) which is uniform across all States and Territories.

The child must also meet the residence requirements for a child support assessment, which are:

    the child is in Australia when the person makes the application (section 24(1)(b)(i)); and/or
    the child is an Australian citizen, or ordinarily resident in Australia on that day (section 24(1)(b)(ii)).

If the parent or non-parent carer, who would be eligible to receive child support, is a resident of a reciprocating jurisdiction, the residence requirements for a child do not apply (section 24(2)). See Chapter 1.6.3 for further information.


Disclaimer - I apologise for any adverse reaction/feeling you may have if you are not of sound mind and therefore take this disclaimer and everything I post ridiculously out of context and see the hidden gender-biased messages that my lack of self-awareness allows me to actually be aware of and compose without actually even composing them.

Thanking Larissap for the inspiration behind this signature.

When asked about hand written notes on the document marked as Exhibit 3 the best that the Applicant maternal grandmother could say was :
 It looks like my handwriting!
Back to the top
Quote post (45889),  
 
1 guests and 0 members are viewing this: None
Control functions:

,   Reply,   Add topic,  





, Back to the top, www.familylawwebguide.com.au,